InC-Lib-Vendor

[David Kennedy <>]

Ann,

I couldn't agree with you more.  This
does actually help open the lines of communication within a campus.  And
that is a good thing.

Maybe the one thing that might be helpful
is a little more clarity in terms of WHO actually needs to sign the sponsorship
letter.  This is something that I find a little confusing in the InCommon
documentation.  I don't know how to make that process more clear,
except maybe that there might be some assistance that InCommon could provide
to libraries, on request, to identify the person at their campus that has
the authority to sign the sponsorship letter.  This will at least
give libraries a starting point for opening the communications at their
campus.

I don't personally think the workflow
is broken at the federation level.  I can accept the process as it
is now for a university to vouch for a vendor.  So, I am not necessarily
advocating for a change.

Dave

-----
David Kennedy
Application Developer
Perkins Library, Duke University
(919) 613-6831

From:	Ann West <>
To:	David Kennedy <>
Cc:	inc-lib-vendor <>, Andy Ingham <>, Dean Woodbeck <>, Foster Zhang <>
Date:	10/30/2009 10:03 AM
Subject:	Re: [InC-Lib-Vendor] Support from UNC for letter discussed during 10/16 inc-lib-vendor call

---

Foster and David,

I'll forward your suggestion along. 

My first thought is that it puts the federation in a tough spot. InCommon
exists to provide a trust fabric for HE and it's partners. This has driven
the process of why HE participants must sponsor in non-HE organizations.
The federation is the participants---its everyone.

If a non-HE org sends in a request to join and no one is interested in
working with them, how should the "federation" proceed? What
are the ramifications for the "federation" of being the campus/partner
go-between and accepting or denying potential participants? Who would make
these decisions?

Would it be better in the long run to have those open/established lines
of communication on campus? Won't you need those anyway? I understand this
is a difficult campus political issue to resolve. Maybe there's outreach
we can do to the library community and tools we can develop for campuses
to make the communication connection less bumpy. 


Best,
Ann


----- "David Kennedy" <> wrote:

> Foster,
> 
> You make a good point about sponsorship that exposes some of the
> challenges many of us face at our institutions. And they have to do
> with coordination between library and OIT.
> 
> Sponsorship requests for service providers that are generally
> considered "library resources" are typically going to come
in through
> the library, yet need the attention of someone fairly high up within
> OIT. As you have found, there is sometimes a challenge just in
> identifying the appropriate person at our respective institutions.
And
> then convincing them to take action could possibly take some work
as
> well.
> 
> I don't have any suggestions for how to make this workflow better.
> 
> I have only been involved with one of these sponsorships before when
I
> was at Maryland, and fortunately, we had already established good
> communication between the library and OIT specifically on Shibboleth
> and other identity management issues, so this happened to go smoothly.
> 
> Dave
> 
> -----
> David Kennedy
> Application Developer
> Perkins Library, Duke University
> (919) 613-6831
> 
> 
> 
>                  From:
                 Foster
Zhang <>
>                  To:
                 David
Kennedy <>, Ann West
> <>, Dean Woodbeck <>
>                  Cc:
                 inc-lib-vendor
<>, Andy
> Ingham <>, Dean Woodbeck <>
>                  Date:
                 10/29/2009
02:55 PM
>                  Subject:
                 RE:
[InC-Lib-Vendor] Support from UNC for letter discussed
> during 10/16 inc-lib-vendor call
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ann,
> 
> I have a question about the sponsorship.
> 
> Can we have a web interface, and let companies who like to join the
> federation file the petition online, then committees of InCommon can
> approve or disapprove from there.
> 
> I had a company expressed interests to join InCommon, and asked if
JHU
> can be a sponsor to them. It took me awhile to get who at JHU is the
> executive rep., and try to explain to him about the company and InC
> library try to do, 4 month late, this company is still waiting.
> 
> Foster
> 
> From: David Kennedy [ 
]
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 14:28
> To: Ann West
> Cc: inc-lib-vendor; Andy Ingham; Dean Woodbeck
> Subject: Re: [InC-Lib-Vendor] Support from UNC for letter discussed
> during 10/16 inc-lib-vendor call
> 
> Ann,
> 
> I like this list. And I was also thinking about sponsorship. It would
> be good to include this up front in what we are asking of
> universities, so that there is a known workflow when a vendor makes
> the decision that they want to join InCommon. And if a university
is
> willing to back this sort of invitation for a particular vendor, it
> seems logical that they would already have an established business
> relationship with that vendor and be a likely sponsor for that vendor
> into InCommon.
> 
> As a side note, and I don't mean to change the conversation, I am
also
> thinking about what universities might be ready to test and work with
> the vendors. There is still some limited understanding I think outside
> of our group of some of the concepts we have included in our best
> practices. I am thinking most particularly about the
> shibboleth-ezproxy workflow. I do think that we should be certain
that
> the universities that pledge they are willing to participate are
> capable of doing so.
> 
> So, maybe when incommon participants are pledging their interest and
> willingness to sign their name, they may also separately indicate
if
> they are interested in being testers? Maybe we would require that
the
> lead institution for a particular vendor would be already capable
of
> doing the testing?
> 
> It seems that the time in which a vendor is joining InCommon is an
> ideal time to stress the best practices, and I think it important
that
> this is in some way incorporated into the testing process.
> 
> Thank you for all this
> 
> Dave
> 
> -----
> David Kennedy
> Application Developer
> Perkins Library, Duke University
> (919) 613-6831
> 
> 
> 
>                  From:
                 Ann
West <>
>                  To:
                 David
Kennedy <>
>                  Cc:
                 inc-lib-vendor
<>, Andy
> Ingham <>, Dean Woodbeck <>
>                  Date:
                 10/29/2009
01:35 PM
>                  Subject:
                 Re:
[InC-Lib-Vendor] Support from UNC for letter discussed
> during 10/16 inc-lib-vendor call
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, as I mentioned, I'm happy to have you or someone else pick this
> stuff up if you want it done earlier. I have the UK list and can
> forward that along.
> 
> I can then catch up with you when I get back from Educause...
> 
> Ann
> 
> 
> ----- "Ann West" <> wrote:
> 
> > David,
> >
> > I'd be happy to pitch this on the call tomorrow.
> >
> > In thinking a bit more, here are the tasks. There are a couple
of
> new
> > ones (like the sponsoring offer...do we want to do that?):
> >
> > - Develop the letter draft and vett
> > - includes invitation to join InC
> > - includes list of customer campuses willing to test/work with
them
> > - includes invitation to optional conference call to talk more
> > - offer on behalf of lead campus to sponsor vendor into InC
> > - X person will follow up with them
> > - Compare InC and UK lists and develop list of potential vendors
> > - Develop wiki page where campuses can indicate interest
> > - are they willing to "sign" a letter that includes
library and IT
> > contact names
> > - Publicize and give InC participants X weeks to complete
> > - Review after x weeks and determine which vendors to contact
> > - Send list out to InC participants to vett. Give one week.
> > - Identify lead campus for each vendor contact. Choose appropriate
> > person to send the letter to the vendor.
> > - Send out letters (emails really)
> > - Follow up with vendors if no response (who does this? campus?)
> > - InC set up conference calls as needed
> > - InC help do the sponsoring letters for campuses, as requested
> > - Vendors join
> > - Campuses pilot with vendor
> > - Vendors go into production
> > - Declare project success
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Ann
> >
> >
> > ----- "David Kennedy" <>
wrote:
> >
> > > Ann
> > >
> > > Are you planning on being on the call tomorrow? If so, would
you
> be
> > > willing to pitch the idea to the larger group? There may
be some
> > from
> > > the use case subgroup that would be willing to join this
effort.
> > >
> > > I can start work on comparing the membership lists.
> > >
> > > For advancing the conversation both at my own university
and for
> > > recruiting other universities, I think it is important that
we
> have
> > a
> > > draft letter quickly and a list of potential vendors that
we
> > consider
> > > in that 2nd tier.
> > >
> > > I was assuming that you would be the one to do the initial
draft
> of
> > > that letter. Would you be able to do that part sooner than
> > > mid-November? Or would you want one of us to take the first
stab
> at
> > it
> > > if we wanted it sooner?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > -----
> > > David Kennedy
> > > Application Developer
> > > Perkins Library, Duke University
> > > (919) 613-6831
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Ann West <>
> > > To: David Kennedy <>
> > > Cc: inc-lib-vendor <>,
Dean
> > > Woodbeck <>, Andy Ingham
> > <>
> > > Date: 10/29/2009 12:39 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [InC-Lib-Vendor] Support from UNC for letter
> > discussed
> > > during 10/16 inc-lib-vendor call
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > This is good news! Now to just compare the membership lists
and
> > start
> > > the letter.
> > >
> > > FYI...I'm happy to do this but won't get to it until mid-November.
> > If
> > > someone would like to start something earlier, that would
be fine
> > too.
> > > I'm happy to pick up/join in at the later date.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Ann
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- "David Kennedy" <>
wrote:
> > >
> > > > Andy,
> > > >
> > > > That is great news! I had a similar conversation here
at Duke a
> > few
> > > > weeks back with the AUL for IT in our library. We are
in the
> same
> > > boat
> > > > in terms of institutional support for this. And we
have
> confidence
> > > > that we can get the appropriate signatures here as
well. I think
> > it
> > > > might be helpful if we could have a draft of what we
will be
> > asking
> > > > them to sign.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > -----
> > > > David Kennedy
> > > > Application Developer
> > > > Perkins Library, Duke University
> > > > (919) 613-6831
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Andy Ingham <>
> > > > To: inc-lib-vendor <>,
Ann
> > West
> > > > <>, Dean Woodbeck <>
> > > > Date: 10/29/2009 09:36 AM
> > > > Subject: [InC-Lib-Vendor] Support from UNC for letter
discussed
> > > > during 10/16 inc-lib-vendor call
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > All --
> > > >
> > > > I had a conversation with the Head of Library Systems
here
> > yesterday
> > > > around the following topic, as quoted from the minutes
of the
> > 10/16
> > > > call-->
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://spaces.internet2.edu/display/inclibrary/Minutes+from+Vendor+subgroup+call+10-16-09
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > "So far we have concentrated on vendors that are
already in
> > > InCommon.
> > > > Will want to invite, encourage, recruit vendors that
are not yet
> > > > InCommon members. There is a second tier of vendors,
those that
> > are
> > > > already SAML based and work with UK Access Management
> Federation.
> > > > These
> > > > should be the next to target. Tact might be strength
in numbers;
> > 10
> > > or
> > > > so institutions to sign some sort of letter asking
vendor to
> join
> > > > InCommon; vendors respond to their customers more than
> federation.
> > > > Desirable to have signature of CIO or UL."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > He felt confident that getting the signature of our
University
> > > > Librarian
> > > > (Associate Provost for University Libraries) wouldn't
be a
> > problem.
> > > We
> > > > would indicate to her how building this sort of momentum
and
> > laying
> > > > this
> > > > sort of groundwork is critical to any number of future
> > initiatives.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, FYI. We are ready to proceed with bringing
that together
> > > when
> > > > others are.
> > > >
> > > > Andy
> > > >
> > > > Andy Ingham
> > > > Assistant Head, Library Systems
> > > > University Library
> > > > UNC-Chapel Hill
> > > > 919-962-1288
> > > > 
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ann West, Sr. Program Manager
> > > Internet2/InCommon/Michigan Tech
> > > 
> > > 
> > > office: +1.906.487.1726
> >
> > --
> > Ann West, Sr. Program Manager
> > Internet2/InCommon/Michigan Tech
> > 
> > 
> > office: +1.906.487.1726
> 
> --
> Ann West, Sr. Program Manager
> Internet2/InCommon/Michigan Tech
> 
> 
> office: +1.906.487.1726

-- 
Ann West, Sr. Program Manager 
Internet2/InCommon/Michigan Tech 
 
 
office: +1.906.487.1726