ad-assurance - [AD-Assurance] RE: Definitions for Authentication Secrets
Subject: Meeting the InCommon Assurance profile criteria using Active Directory
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- From: "Capehart,Jeffrey D" <>
- To: "" <>
- Subject: [AD-Assurance] RE: Definitions for Authentication Secrets
- Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 20:42:55 +0000
- Accept-language: en-US
A significant emphasis on the part of the alternative means statement should be towards “Strong Protection of Authentication Secrets”. The interpretation being used as it applies to these specific authentication
methods is helpful. (See Eric’s 2nd email with interpretation for 4.2.3.6.2) One problem to consider is that Bronze 4.2.3.5 says “don’t transmit plain-text passwords.” Silver says “use a protected channel.” LM Hash, NT Hash, NTLMv2 and Kerberos RC4-HMAC don’t meet protected channel,
but they aren’t plain text either. However, LM hash is so weak it might as well be plain text. NTLM (V1) is stronger, and NTLMv2 & RC4-HMAC are better. Ultimately, the minimum bar for Windows AD would need to be set at NTLMv2 & RC4 (RC4-HMAC) which although not being “approved algorithms” would be much better than a plain text password and better than the older
weaker protocols. I suppose it may not make much difference, but if the IdP <-> Verifier channel on the Shibboleth side uses a protected channel (such as LDAPS SSL/TLS), then for InCommon’s touching point with an IdP (with HTTPS),
the spirit and letter of Silver is met. The other protocols (NTLMv2, RC4-HMAC) would be used by the verifier only for other authentications that aren’t Shibboleth such as logging in to a Windows workstation, file share, server, database, etc. The point here
is that the non-approved algorithms would not be used when doing the Shibboleth/InCommon Profile verifications/authentications. Therefore, if the risk of having a credential/authentication secret ‘learned’ from the internal side can be argued to be low, that
could help support the alternative means statement. For example, learning the secret may require network eavesdropping which could limit the risk to the IdP’s internal network rather than those protocols going across the whole Internet. Having switched networks
and encrypted WiFi might help limit exposure on the internal network. --Jeff C. From: [mailto:]
On Behalf Of Eric Goodman Thanks for finding these (I never found the one in the IAAF).
The NIST definition is arguably broader than the IAAF’s, the IAAF sounds like it really means “the password” not “a session key”.
I was just getting ready to send my suggested text, but it is written assuming that an encrypted session key or a response message (to am NTLMv2 challenge) would be considered an “Authentication Secret”. The
IAAF definition implies to me that it is not, and to me shifts the argument back over to “we’re not sending the authentication secret, we’re sending something encrypted with the authentication secret” although part of me feels like “sending my password encrypted”
and “sending data encrypted with my password” are roughly equivalent. --- Eric From:
[]
On Behalf Of Capehart,Jeffrey D Following up from today’s call on the discussion surrounding “Authentication Secrets” and whether a hash versus the plaintext password would be considered to be included… Note the slight variations and differences in the definitions for “Authentication Secret”: NIST SP800-63 A generic term for any secret value that could be used by an Attacker to impersonate the Subscriber in an authentication protocol.
These are further divided into
short-term authentication secrets, which are only useful to an Attacker for a limited period of time, and
long-term authentication secrets, which allow an Attacker to impersonate the Subscriber until they are manually reset. The token secret is the canonical example of a long term authentication secret, while the token authenticator, if it is different from
the token secret, is usually a short term authentication secret. IAAF v1.2 The term
Authentication Secret
is used generically for passwords, passphrases, PINs, symmetric keys and other forms of secrets used for authentication. An Authentication Secret may also be generated by a
Token, which is a physical device (or specialized software on a device such as a mobile phone) used in authentication. Authentication Secrets are vulnerable to guessing attacks, so resistance to guessing is an important IAP requirement. Requirements for protection of Secrets in transit and storage also may be needed. NOTE: Another key point to reference for the Alternative Means statements: 3.1.3 CREDENTIAL TECHNOLOGY For shared secret Credentials, e.g., userID/password, the IAP might address how the Authentication Secret must be
sufficiently difficult for a person other than the Subject to determine through trial and error, or other means and must be protected from illicit capture or replay. Appendix C: Authentication Secret Used generically for passwords, passphrases, PINs, symmetric keys and other forms of secrets used for authentication Jeff Capehart, CISA |
- [AD-Assurance] Definitions for Authentication Secrets, Capehart,Jeffrey D, 08/23/2013
- [AD-Assurance] RE: Definitions for Authentication Secrets, Eric Goodman, 08/23/2013
- [AD-Assurance] RE: Definitions for Authentication Secrets, Capehart,Jeffrey D, 08/23/2013
- [AD-Assurance] RE: Definitions for Authentication Secrets, Ron Thielen, 08/23/2013
- [AD-Assurance] RE: Definitions for Authentication Secrets, Eric Goodman, 08/23/2013
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